Tzakhi (00:01)
Hi, Annabelle.
Anabel Maldonado (00:02)
Hi Taki, how are you?
Tzakhi (00:05)
Great. Thanks for coming. We're at the Meet .Capitol startup podcast. Very excited to have you. Annabel, I'm not sure how to pronounce your last name.
Anabel Maldonado (00:15)
Maldonado.
Tzakhi (00:16)
Maldonado, yeah, and of Psyche AI. So I want to hear a bit about your journey. I want to hear about Psyche AI and I want to hear about a bit about your process in raising capital because you've done a great job raising capital for Psyche AI in a very tough time. And I think a lot of founders can learn from you. But I think a lot of founders can actually learn from you a lot about how to run a startup and how to...
build a tech startup. I'll let you say a bit about Seq .ai and I'll tell you what I think about it.
Anabel Maldonado (00:53)
Sounds good, Saki. So, Psyche .ai is a personalization engine that works with retailers to hyper -personalize the experience per user in real time. So, we're the first to use machine learning, deep learning, as well as psychology in order to really grasp the nuances of consumer goods. So, moving away from the status quo in personalization, which is, you clicked on a black vest here, Tenmore like it, this kind of cookie cutter recommendation carousel, but really having a fully...
per user merchandise front end, right? So me and you go on hoodies on the Lululemon, we'd see a completely different rank order. So that's, you know, really bringing the personalization strength of a Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, Netflix, YouTube, to the e -commerce experience. So a bit about me, my background is in neuropsychology. I was always very interested in human behavior, how the brain works, how are we wired, can we change? And then long story, but ended up working in luxury e -commerce for 12 years with...
a lot of the original Tivo de la Porte. Loved that industry, but I always just felt that the way we were promoting things in fashion was very, you know, very impersonal. It was always florals were spraying this trend, that trend. No one's really trying to understand, you know, when it comes to aesthetic, and that could be a travel destination, a hotel suite, a car, a hoodie, a couch. When we see something like what drives that reaction of that's me or that's not me, what drives taste? And through exploring that question and doing years of research, we...
came to a framework that now informs how we do the feature engineering at Psyche AI.
Tzakhi (02:29)
Okay, look, first of all, I have to tell you, I work with a lot of startups and Psyche AI is a very exciting one in my mind because first of all, I'm just looking at it from outside. I'm not in your market. I don't understand your space as well as you do, but just looking at it from the outside, you're in a very hot space right now, which is AI, but you're not one of the thousands upon thousands of startups that are doing a very kind of...
easy application with an AI which is built on the existing applications of CHAT GPT or other applications, but you actually have something unique that's been built over time and it's research backed and has your own IP and is also protected, right? Do I remember correctly? You have a patent on it?
Anabel Maldonado (03:18)
Yeah, we have a patent for the part of the system that assigns the cycle graphics scores to products, which is part of that feature engineering I was referring to.
Tzakhi (03:25)
Okay, yeah, so that's what I'm saying. So you have a real differentiator in a hot market, plus you have something which is also interesting, which is founder market fit. So everyone knows what product market fit is, but there's also a question of having a founder that knows what they're doing in their space, and you have all the background. And I have to say, we've been working together for a while, and...
I know you quite well by now and you're really professional and the way you've been able to handle yourself through very tough market and hold Sankey Eye together and raise capital and build market and get into pilots with some of the biggest brands is really, really impressive. So congratulations.
Anabel Maldonado (04:12)
Thank you, Saki. I appreciate that. It has been much like you said. But yeah, I mean, it's to say like we in differentiation, I think what's obviously made a difference is, and you know, this speaks to the founder market for it as well as everything has been organic and authentic and in terms of how we came to be, there was never a point where I'm like, well, you know, I want to be a tech entrepreneur and make lots of money or, you know, this is an export area. Let's do this. You know, it was just.
I was just always led by curiosity and a sense of, you know, I have a path and it's one thing will lead to the next. And I think coming full circle in these two different, very different industries, you know, working in neuropsychology and then luxury e -commerce kind of created this framework that, you know, I think is really the bridge between the creative and the analytical and kind of closing the gap in a sense. You know, a lot of people will say personalization for retail doesn't work very well. I mean, there are some global optimizations who will...
will create this marginal lift, but you've never heard of a consumer really saying, wow, this really, you know, the store really gets me, this personization really works. You know, conversely, I think you tend to hear a lot of the opposite. And I think part of that is there needs to be this sort of, you know, more of the intangibles and that taste level infused into the into the maths that power the models to really bridge that gap. So that's why we exist.
Tzakhi (05:35)
Yeah. And I think it's, it's coming into a world where people are going to get more and more used to having their intentions guessed by the, the apps and the computers that they're surrounded with because we're getting AI into everything. And we're going to have the devices that we speak to and communicate in a different way than we, we are now. And what you're doing is going to naturally fit into that.
Anabel Maldonado (06:01)
I agree. And I mean, sometimes they're often it goes beyond your intent. You might not even know your intent. I mean, I think I think a lot of models that are overly built on intent will try to, you know, if the model is optimized for conversion and clicks, and I have been looking at a black hoodie, I mean, that's its best guess. You kind of can't blame it. Like, okay, that's her intent. That's what we're going to guess is we're going to show her. But it's, you know, part of how we do our feature engineering is described trying to recommend with more diversity is like, okay, what else might she like?
There's no evidence that she definitely needs to buy a black vest. But, you know, if you think about a good in -store experience, a really good salesperson that knows you would actually like surprise and delight you with something that's an adjacency, right? Like, OK, I get her overall style. Maybe she'll also like these sneakers and they'll come in like, oh, this came in and I thought of you. And I mean, that's that's what we're trying to recreate is showing you a myriad of things you might not know you wanted as well to sort of, you know, optimize and you get more out of one shopping experience than than you would when you just like have to buy something.
Tzakhi (07:01)
Yeah. Okay, look, with Secchia, you're obviously at a good starting point reaching out to investors because you have technology and you also have some very good traction with like pilots that you have with very big brands. So that's a good starting point, but still it's a tough market. Can I say how much you've been raising since from angels since starting to work with us?
Anabel Maldonado (07:30)
Yeah, I mean, think the number with you and then overall is there are two different numbers there, but of course.
Tzakhi (07:38)
Yeah, so half a million, right? With us.
Anabel Maldonado (07:40)
Yeah, I've raised over a million in total, yeah, and then half a million of that has been through your advice.
Tzakhi (07:47)
Great, awesome. And so I really want to ask you a bit about the things that you do. I can say that my experience is that you're very professional in everything that you touch upon, including crafting your messages, building your decks. And those are kind of obvious things to say. But what I don't know enough about and I'm curious to hear, and I think our audience would be interested in hearing is a bit about how you prepare for meetings and how you...
how you handle those meetings and how you close meetings. So let's start with how you prepare when you're about to meet an angel investor for the first time.
Anabel Maldonado (08:28)
That's a good question. I mean, I think there's two things I focus on. I think the most important thing is really about preparing your energy. I think that's probably beyond anything that you can say and show what they pick up on the most. I think investors just look at, does this person believe what they're saying? Do they have conviction in themselves? Does this feel inevitable? I think subconsciously, is this person a winner? Are they going to win at this?
Are they going to have the perseverance? These are all like the subconscious things that I think are helping them. You know, it's an emotional decision. And then on top of that, then they're looking at, okay, does everything she say actually check out and make sense logically? But I'd say that the former is much more powerful. So, I mean, I think the hardest thing about this, I mean, you know, Ben Horowitz says in his book, the hard thing about the hard things, the hardest thing about being a founder is managing your own psychology. So, you know, I think the norm is that there's shit happening all around you. And...
It's stressful and most of the time your energy isn't as high as it takes a lot of effort to keep your energy in a way that helps you show up as a winner and helps you get back into that flow where you feel that you can really do the message justice. So I would say one, I mean, don't schedule a bunch of meetings back to back with investors because you'll naturally deplete. You might have someone might be having an off day. You don't know what about and that might affect how they respond to you. Then you're going to feel terrible about yourself.
So I mean, I think especially if you have a few that are really key, try to space them out so that you could actually, if you have a bad meeting with someone for whatever reason, you could recover from that. So really, really guard your energy. It's really not just about facts. It's really about that whole kind of vibe that you're emitting. And there's many ways I prepare for that. I mean, sometimes if it's a struggle, I'll like listen to, I mean, I listen to a lot of hip hop. So I usually play a few hip hop songs.
Just get ready, put on a sweater I like, whatever the case may be, just feel good. I think that's the bottom line. Do what you need to do to feel good ahead of that meeting. Apart from that, just obviously you want to make sure you have your parameters and right. So just write down on a notepad beside yourself, like, okay, what do you have in the bank? All those questions that investors are going to ask, what do you have in the bank? How much is left to raise? What's your AR? All of those top line metrics, have them in a notepad beside you because you don't want to be.
um, you know, umming and awing. So if you have your numbers right and you've got a good energy, I think you're good to go.
Tzakhi (10:57)
Okay, first of all, I'm sure that most people would start by saying, prepare for the meeting by researching about the person you're about to meet. And that is important, but I think you're... Yeah.
Anabel Maldonado (11:08)
That's such a given. It's such a given. If I have to tell you that you need to look up the person you're going to talk to, do something else. Sorry.
Tzakhi (11:16)
No, but it's interesting that you didn't put that as the first thing. And the first thing is actually to have yourself in an emotional state that will enable you to win the meeting, so to speak.
Anabel Maldonado (11:26)
Yeah, feel good.
Tzakhi (11:28)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I think it's, first of all, it's true, you know, about a lot of types of meetings and encounters that you have. And even if you're able to at least take a few moments to take a few deep breaths or whatever, whatever you need, I don't know, a cup of coffee, whatever helps you kind of get back on track. Yeah, that's, that's super important. And, and, and I think people also, I know about myself, you overestimate your ability to handle.
situations and meetings. And I think it's good advice to kind of space things out, especially when the things are emotionally charged, like a call with an investor, because investors can have tough questions. Some investors are not so nice, it happens, and then don't make you feel bad about what you're doing or about your company or about your vision. And you need to kind of be able to process that.
Anabel Maldonado (12:23)
100 % and I think it's also worth remembering it's just, you know, it's never all on you. It's 50 -50 because I've actually had meetings, I've had situations where I hadn't had time to prepare that, the energy and I mean, it's, you know, things have happened and avoidable stuff with family schedules and where, you know, I was definitely not in a great frame of mind. I'm like, I'm going to have this meeting and me and...
investor on the other end just ended up having great chemistry and it's like their own energy actually shifted mine. So sometimes sometimes you get lucky and you have that but I think you know in order to do risk it like you know take responsibility for your side of the street and when possible
try not to have like a bunch of meetings back to back and show up with a stress energy.
Tzakhi (13:06)
Okay. How long is a meeting, a first meeting with an investor for you? Half an hour? Yeah, that's my number, but I was curious to hear if you have a different approach. Okay.
Anabel Maldonado (13:13)
half an hour.
Tzakhi (13:24)
How much of the meeting for you is about convincing the investor and how much is it about assessing the investor and seeing if you want them on board? I mean, obviously you have to do both things. Is it 90 -10? Is it 50 -50? How much would you weigh assessing the investor?
Anabel Maldonado (13:47)
I mean, I'd say that it's happening simultaneously on both sides because there isn't like, I'm not waiting to hear a specific answer from them. I'm also subconsciously assessing them based on everything that they're saying and how they're responding to what I'm saying and how much they're listening. What did they find interesting? So I'd say both processes are happening simultaneously. There isn't just a okay go. I mean, I think naturally the founder and investor conversations have a very clear.
Tzakhi (13:52)
OK.
Anabel Maldonado (14:17)
template now where usually the investor gives a few minutes about their interest experience process and then you go but you know the actual assessment is happening throughout.
Tzakhi (14:30)
When they do that, do you ask them a lot of questions or how do you treat that usually?
Anabel Maldonado (14:37)
I don't really feel the need to ask any specific questions because again, I've picked up on tons of little cues and my kind of opinion about them, how they talk, what they talk about, what they choose to say. It's all pretty clear, I would say. Their tone, I mean, how they're responding to what I'm saying. You know, I think where we have really, where there's a really strong synergy in chemistry, it's a pretty fluid conversation where we're both talking throughout.
So I find that if it's an investor that doesn't have a lot to say or isn't responding a lot, then there isn't that natural interest to begin with. I've never had a really quiet meeting that all of a sudden turned out well. Then I'm not interested in having them as an investor and probably it's just not the right company for them. So it's pretty clear, I would say.
Tzakhi (15:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's kind of challenging for oftentimes where you really want to raise the money, but you still have to kind of be able to come into the meeting, not wanting it too much, but actually being open to see, is this going well? Is this a fit? Do I want to continue communicating with this person after this half hour is over? Because the answer is not necessarily yes, even if you really need the capital. Hopefully you're not.
in such a desperate situation that you have to take anybody's money and you actually are able to choose and take people into, because you're really taking them into your cap table, into your company and you're going to be with them for a while. You have to have some basic trust and you have to have some respect to the person that you're bringing in. But people, it's easy to get lost because you want it so much and not to kind of remember that you're also assessing them.
Anabel Maldonado (16:32)
Yeah, I mean, that's I think preparing your energy is part of that because usually I think part of that is a little bit, you know, I'm going to go into the spiritual here, but kind of feeling like, you know, your whole company and life doesn't depend on this one call. They're, you know, kind of being detached from the outcome. And this is something that's talked about a lot in dating, but it's like the way to ward off any kind of desperate energy is being detached from the outcome, right? Like your your life and your happiness isn't
depend on this one call on this one day, like you have to kind of believe that there's be a bit fadist about it, right? So that takes the pressure off that one call. And I think in terms of kind of not wasting energy on after doing this for a while, I think you realize, you know, there's there's kind of there's an immediate yes, where, you know, they love you, they love the company, you feel the same way about them, and you want to, you want to sign, right? So there's like those calls, and then there's
Then there's calls where you feel like they like this, they get it. I think they want to go deeper into discovery. They want to see a trajectory before they say yes. And that happens too, right? I've had great investors that just want to wait a little bit and have more calls and see how you move and meet the team. And that's fine. And they may say yes later. They may not. But if they're consistent, they usually do if you show them the right things. And then there's some that you just, there obviously, there isn't really a great connection. And...
I think don't waste time falling up with those too much. There's probably nothing that you would ever say that's going to like double down on what's working, I think ultimately is the way to do that. And then you don't feel like, you know, you have to do something on this call to really, really convince. Like it's not about one thing you said or didn't say.
Tzakhi (18:11)
It sounds like you don't really have a technique to close the call or something like that.
Anabel Maldonado (18:19)
No, I have no techniques. I think that's been my technique is that I've been... Sorry?
Tzakhi (18:21)
Good. That's what I recommend actually. That's been the recommendation that we've been putting on the blog and the website everywhere is no closing techniques. Just to forget about all of them because people see them in my own way.
Anabel Maldonado (18:36)
Oh.
Yeah, no one wants to feel like they're talking to, you know, like a salesman at the end of the day, right? So, I mean, a lot of people will say to me that, yeah, wow, it really feels like, you know, you're not really selling this. Like, you're just being really authentic, you know? And like, yeah, I mean, that's the only way I really know how to be. And I don't know, maybe there's one person where if I had had a better technique, I would have got them, right? Like, let's just say, but I think for...
one of those, there's probably three or four that are really like, I really trust her really quickly because I can sense that she's being genuine, right? And I think that's just more important.
Tzakhi (19:15)
Yeah. Yeah. And I also think it starts with really, really believing that what you're offering them is good for them. So it's not like you're convincing so much as you're offering.
Anabel Maldonado (19:30)
Yeah, definitely. And that comes to a lot. I think Sam Almond said the easiest way to win fundraising is to just build a great company. And if you feel that you're doing that and your company's in a good place, then that comes across easy. Obviously, every startup is going to have challenges. And being transparent about the risks and challenges is key. But really believing the upside that needs to come across.
Tzakhi (19:59)
Yeah. Yeah. So it really all comes back to the point you said in the beginning, which is preparing your mind and your being for the meeting and kind of remembering why you're there, why you believe in what you're doing, why it's a good offer for the investor.
Anabel Maldonado (20:22)
Yeah, and doing the work, I would say. I mean, first and foremost, right? Because I think that just goes back to what we touch. It's really hard to be convincing if you yourself, deep down, know you're avoiding something that you're supposed to be doing in your company.
Tzakhi (20:36)
Yeah, but you know, it's, that sounds, I mean, you're right, but there's also the other side of it, that there's always something that you kind of feel a doubt about, and there's always some, you know, something that hasn't been done fully. I mean, we're real people, it's not like, you know, you can't really reach that moment where it's like, well, brilliant, and you're, so you kind of need to be able to kind of go beyond those failures. You can't just count on just everything being.
being all, you know, having everything spotless and in place and just coming in with that.
Anabel Maldonado (21:14)
Yeah, 100%. And I would say that's the biggest challenge, right? Like a lot of that will be amplified any day, right? And I think that, I mean, going back to neuroscience, the way the brain is structured, anything that's like a fear or a threat or an anxiety always will feel more overpowering than, you know, the upside that will happen if A, B, C, Y, and F all align, right? So it's much easier to kind of give in to the fear than it is to focus on it. But, you know, in times like that, I like to go back to...
this kind of little post that was going on Instagram once upon a time, but like, remember why you started, right? And I think if you remember why you started, and for me, if I lean into the origin story of like, you know, why do I believe that I'm uniquely, I know something, you know, Peter Thiel says that great companies are built on secrets about the world or secrets about people. And I think one thing, you know, it the first startup book I read when I was starting up and it really stuck with me because I'm like, I really do believe that.
On an analog level, I understand why people like things that they like and I've done work into this field and I'm obsessed with it and consumed by it and I will ensure that the tech I'm building is different because of that and no one else has that, right? And then if I lean into that, who cares about like the mundane concerns that arise?
Tzakhi (22:33)
Okay, I wanted to ask you a bit about what happens after the investment. There are different levels of involvement of investors, specifically angel investors. What has been your approach and how do you keep your investors updated? How do you connect with them after they've invested?
Anabel Maldonado (23:00)
Yeah, I usually do an update for all of them every two months. If it's been a really momentous month, I'll do at the end of that month. But at least every two months, I do a big roundup on all key things, wins, challenges, all the numbers. I really always want to make everyone feel... I never want to make anyone feel like, okay, I've parted with this money and then don't hear from her. That's just...
I would never want anyone to feel like that. So I've been told I'm pretty good on the updates, communications in general. And I think also I share other wins, like if we get press or, you know, we just did an RF and had some really great, you know, really great success at an RF. So just really a big summary, you know, links to our press, so just to keep them happy and excited and engaged because.
I think this one board member pointed out, because sometimes if you go quiet, sometimes, you know, there were periods where I went more quiet because I was just so head down. But, you know, all of these people are out having meetings. And if you keep them updated, like you expand your surface area for luck purely through just like keeping staying in front of mind and making sure that everyone who's advocating for you has all the relevant information. Otherwise, you're just like having missed opportunities you don't even know about. And, you know, I see everyone. I have a lot of investors sort of,
between I guess London, New York, California, Miami, and definitely try to catch up with everyone when I'm there.
Tzakhi (24:33)
Okay, so one more thing about updating investors. What about those that haven't yet invested but were sort of interested or wanted to stay in touch or were close to investing? Do they get the same updates?
Anabel Maldonado (24:46)
They get close to the same updates. I would say maybe about three or four times a year, I'll send an email to prospective investors, those who asked to be kept up to date and just keep them up to date on key milestones and wins. And, you know, often usually get a few calls sort of to reconnect off the base of that. And I think the interesting thing there is over time, you know, some relationships will definitely forge strong enough. I mean, often it's it's
These are larger funds where you were legitimately too early, but by the time you have the right milestones for that stage, you already have some great relationships that have developed. So I definitely would recommend doing that. I think I've not always, I've more recently learned the payoffs of that. So I've kind of gone back and looked through my old calendars and seen like, okay, this person actually asked to be kept in touch. So now I have a really robust system for that. So I can't recommend that enough.
Tzakhi (25:42)
Yeah, one of our previous guests, Jonathan Gahn, has a whole system about that. And he's so meticulous about even people that he had, anyone that had any kind of level of conversation about the company, he keeps in touch and he has it prepared when he needs to follow up with them. And he says that has brought amazing investors over time, people that came even a year after the initial meeting were happy.
were surprised to hear he came to them when he had a win or something which is important update that he could update with and that he said worked marvels for him. And I think these things also help for not only for raising capital but for business interactions and partnerships and.
Anabel Maldonado (26:29)
So much because I think what you don't realize as a founder is that people have their own lives, they're not thinking about you. And if they see something sporadically here and there, it's not the same as them seeing your trajectory. And it's like, as often said, people invest in a trajectory. And if they actually see your movements and get a sense, they're really, they're almost moved by it. It's like watching an athlete and their total effort and how that consumes you.
The only way you could show that as an entrepreneur is by showing that trajectory. So I think it's an underrated skill for sure.
Tzakhi (27:07)
Okay, Annabel, thanks so much. This was really great and helpful. And I've learned a lot and I think our audience too. Who should reach out to you?
Anabel Maldonado (27:17)
Thanks for having me, Tzaki. I would say machine learning engineers that want to be part of cutting edge approaches to personalization and recommendation engines should definitely reach out. We're growing and always looking to find new talent and also, yeah, investors that want to be part of personalization done differently.
Tzakhi (27:37)
Okay, they should. Absolutely. I'll include your LinkedIn profile. Great, Annabel, thanks so much.
Anabel Maldonado (27:43)
Sounds good.
Yeah. Thanks, Aki. Bye.
Tzakhi (27:49)
Bye bye.
